NIGHTLINE

STORY SLUG:................................THE PLAN

PRODUCER:..................................ABC NEWS

INTERVIEWER:..........................TED KOPPEL

INTERVIEWEES:

2ND LIEUTENANT DENNIS DOYLE, CHRIS BURY, GARY SCHMITT, JACKIE JUDD, LANCE CORPORAL JUSTIN OXENRIDER, MAJOR PAT NUGENT, MIKE CERRE, PAUL WOLFOWITZ, PRIVATE FIRST CLASS JACOB PERRY, PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK, WILLIAM KRISTOL

TAPES:......................................(NUMBER 1) 1

DATE:..................................................03/05/03

TRANSCRIPT DATE:............. MARCH 9, 2003 ASK FOR TRANSCRIPTS FROM --- THE TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY: (818) 848-6500 --- WWW.TRANSCRIPTS.NET

BARS:..................................................01:00:10

TABLE OF CONTENTS

THE PLAN

03/05/03 ABC NEWS

1 TAPE - 9 PAGES

TAPE: 1.....................................................B-ROLL: NO.................................................................PAGE: 1

21:11:29 THROUGH 21:40:32..............................................................................Interview Date: 03/05/03

INTERVIEWEES: 2nd Lieutenant Dennis Doyle, Chris Bury, Gary Schmitt, Jackie Judd, Lance

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TRANSCRIPT INDEX

SPEAKERS

CHRIS BURY........................................8-9

GARY SCHMITT....................................2-4

JACKIE JUDD......................................2-5

LANCE CORPORAL JUSTIN OXENRIDER...........7

MAJOR PAT NUGENT................................7

MIKE CERRE........................................7-8

PAUL WOLFOWITZ...................................3

PRIVATE FIRST CLASS JACOB PERRY.............8

PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK....................1, 3-4

WILLIAM KRISTOL................................1-6

A

ABC NEWS.......................................2, 5, 9

See Also

ABC NEWS

ABC NEWS.............................................1

See Also

ABC News

ABSENT.................................................3

ADMINISTRATION.................................2-4, 6

See Also

Bush Administration

AMERICA..........................................1-4, 6

ARAB....................................................5

B

BAGHDAD.............................................3, 8

BASRA...................................................8

BILL..................................................5-6

See Also

Bill Kristol

BILL KRISTOL............................................6

See Also

Bill, Kristol

BOB WOODWARD.........................................3

BOSNIA..................................................6

BRITISH.............................................6, 9

BUSH ADMINISTRATION.............................3, 6

See Also

Administration

BUSH AT WAR...........................................3

See Also

War

C

CALIFORNIA..............................................8

CHENEY...............................................2-3

See Also

Dick Cheney

CHIEF....................................................5

CHRIS.................................................8-9

See Also

Chris Bury

CHRIS BURY...........................................8-9

See Also

Chris, CHRIS BURY

CHRIS BURY

SPEAKING...........................................8-9

CLINTON.................................................3

See Also

Clinton White House, Mr. Clinton, President Clinton

CLINTON WHITE HOUSE.................................3

See Also

Clinton, White House

COLONEL.................................................7

CORPORAL WILLIAM PYLES...............................8

CORRESPONDENT MIKE CERRE

See Also

Mike Cerre

D

DEFENSE SECRETARY.....................................3

DEMOCRAT...............................................2

DICK.....................................................2

DOMINATORS............................................4

DONALD RUMSFELD.......................................2

See Also

Included Donald Rumsfeld, Rumsfeld

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E

ENGLAND................................................4

EUROPE..................................................4

F

FAUSTIAN...............................................5

FIFTH MARINE REGIMEN.................................8

See Also

Marine

FIFTH MARINES.........................................7

See Also

Marines

FIVE..................................................7-8

See Also

Five Marines, FOX TWO-FIVE, MARINE COMPANY FOX TWO-FIVE

FIVE MARINES..........................................7

See Also

Five, Marines

FOX TWO............................................7-8

See Also

FOX TWO-FIVE, MARINE COMPANY FOX TWO-FIVE

G

GARY SCHMITT

SPEAKING...........................................2-4

GEORGE W. BUSH.......................................1

GERMANY................................................6

GLASGOW................................................2

GREAT BRITAIN.........................................9

GULF....................................................2

See Also

Persian Gulf

H

HARDLY..................................................2

I

IAN LUSTICK............................................4

See Also

Professor Ian Lustick

INCLUDED DONALD RUMSFELD...........................2

See Also

Donald Rumsfeld, Rumsfeld

INSIDE..................................................2

IRAN.....................................................5

IRAQ............................................2-3, 5-8

IRAQI....................................................8

J

JACKIE JUDD........................................2, 5

See Also

JACKIE JUDD

JACKIE JUDD

SPEAKING...........................................2-5

JANUARY.................................................2

JAPAN...................................................6

JOHN BOLTON...........................................2

K

KOSOVO..................................................6

KRISTOL.................................................4

See Also

Bill Kristol, Mr. Kristol, WILLIAM KRISTOL

KUWAIT..................................................8

KUWAITI.................................................8

L

LANCE CORPORAL JUSTIN OXENRIDER

SPEAKING..............................................7

M

MAJOR PAT NUGENT

SPEAKING..............................................7

MARINE...............................................7-8

See Also

Fifth Marine Regimen, MARINE COMPANY FOX TWO-FIVE

MARINES.............................................7-8

See Also

Fifth Marines, Five Marines, Royal Marines

MEIN KAMPF.............................................2

MIDDLE EAST........................................5, 8

MIKE CERRE............................................8 SPEAKING...........................................7-8

See Also

Correspondent Mike Cerre, MIKE CERRE

See Also

Mike Cerre

MOSCOW TIMES.........................................2

MR. CLINTON............................................3

See Also

Clinton

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MR. KRISTOL............................................5

See Also

Kristol

N

NEW AMERICAN CENTURY............................2, 5

See Also

PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

NIGHTLINE..................................1-2, 5, 8-9

NORTH KOREA...........................................5

P

PAUL WOLFOWITZ.......................................2

See Also

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, Wolfowitz

PAUL WOLFOWITZ

SPEAKING..............................................3

PEARL HARBOR...........................................3

See Also

President's Pearl Harbor

PENNSYLVANIA..........................................3

See Also

UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

PENTAGON...............................................3

PERSIAN GULF...........................................2

See Also

Gulf

PNAC...................................................5

PRESIDENT...........................................1-6

See Also

President Bush, President Clinton, President's Pearl Harbor, Vice President, Vice President Dan Quayle

PRESIDENT BUSH.....................................2, 6

See Also

President

PRESIDENT CLINTON.....................................2

See Also

Clinton, President

PRIVATE FIRST CLASS JACOB PERRY

SPEAKING..............................................8

PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK................................3

See Also

Ian Lustick, PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK

PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK

SPEAKING.......................................1, 3-4

PROJECT..............................................2-5

See Also

PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

R

REPORTING...............................................2

REPUBLICANS.............................................2

RICHARD PERLE...........................................3

ROBERT ZELLIC...........................................2

RONALD REAGAN.........................................2

ROYAL MARINES.........................................9

See Also

Marines

RUMSFELD................................................3

See Also

Donald Rumsfeld, Included Donald Rumsfeld

RUSSIA..................................................4

RUSSIAN.................................................2

S

SADDAM........................................1-3, 5-6

See Also

Saddam Hussein

SADDAM HUSSEIN....................................1-2

See Also

Saddam

SAUDI...................................................6

See Also

Saudi Arabia, Saudi Royal Family

SAUDI ARABIA...........................................6

See Also

Saudi

SAUDI ROYAL FAMILY....................................6

See Also

Saudi

SAUDIS..................................................6

SCOTLAND...............................................4

SCOTTISH................................................2

SECOND BATTALION.....................................7

SEPTEMBER...............................................3

SMOKE...................................................8

STAFF...................................................5

STATE...................................................5

SUNDAY HERALD.........................................2

T

TED KOPPEL..........................................2, 9

See Also

TED KOPPEL

TED KOPPEL............................................1

See Also

Ted Koppel

TURD.....................................................7

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U

UNION ADDRESS........................................5

UNITED STATES......................................5-6

UNIVERSITY.............................................3

See Also

UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

US.............................................1-3, 5-9

V

VICE PRESIDENT......................................3, 5

See Also

President, Vice President Dan Quayle

VICE PRESIDENT DAN QUAYLE...........................5

See Also

President, Vice President

VIETNAM................................................4

W

WAR.................................................1, 3

See Also

Bush At War, World War II

WASHINGTON....................................2, 5, 9

WEEKLY STANDARD MAGAZINE..........................5

WEIGHING...............................................8

WHITE HOUSE.......................................2-3

See Also

Clinton White House

WILLIAM KRISTOL...................................5 SPEAKING...........................................1-6

See Also

Kristol

WOLFOWITZ.............................................3

See Also

Paul Wolfowitz

WORLD WAR II.........................................6

See Also

War

WRITERS................................................4

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TAPE: 1

[SHOW: NTL]

[SLUG: THE PLAN]

[AIRDTE: 03/05/03]

[AIRTME: 23:35, 00:05]

[ANCH: TED KOPPEL]

[ANCHLOC: WASHINGTON, DC USA]

[STORY: NIGHTLINE]

[CORR]

[CORLOC]

[GRAPHICS: MARCH FIVE 2003]

[01]21:11:29 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

If America doesn't lead, no one else will.

[01]21:11:31 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) It has been called a secret blueprint for US global domination.

[01]21:11:37 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

America was being too timid and too weak and too unassertive in the post-Cold War era.

[01]21:11:42 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(VO) A small group of people with a plan to remove Saddam Hussein, long before George W. Bush was elected president.

[01]21:11:51 PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

This group set an agenda and have made the President feel that he has to live up to their definitions of manliness and fear their definitions of failure.

[01]21:12:02 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(VO) And 9/11 provided the opportunity to set it in motion.

[01]21:12:06 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

One of the lessons of 9/11 is that you can't sit back and wait to be hit.

[GRAPHICS: THE PLAN]

[01]21:12:09 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(VO) Tonight, "The Plan", how one group and its blueprint have brought us to the brink of war.

[GRAPHICS: ABC NEWS: NIGHTLINE]

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[01]21:12:19 ANNOUNCER

From ABC News, this is "Nightline." Reporting from Washington, Ted Koppel.

[01]21:12:34 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) You can watch our story tonight on at least two levels. One, the conspiracy theory, as in this excerpt from a Scottish newspaper, the Glasgow "Sunday Herald". "A secret blueprint for US global domination reveals that President Bush and his cabinet were planning a premeditated attack on Iraq to secure regime change even before he took power in January 2001." And a similar, if slightly more hysterical version from a Russian paper, the "Moscow Times". "Not since Mein Kampf has a geopolitical punch been so blatantly telegraphed, years ahead of the blow."

[01]21:13:13 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS (CONTINUED)

(OC) Take away the somewhat hyperbolic references to conspiracy, however, and you're left with a story that has the additional advantage of being true. Back in 1997, a group of Washington heavyweights, almost all of them neo-conservatives, formed an organization called the Project for the New American Century. They did what former government officials and politicians frequently do when they're out of power, they began formulating a strategy, in this case, a foreign policy strategy, that might bring influence to bear on the Administration then in power, headed by President Clinton. Or failing that, on a new Administration that might someday come to power. They were pushing for the elimination of Saddam Hussein. And proposing the establishment of a strong US military presence in the Persian Gulf, linked to a willingness to use force to protect vital American interests in the Gulf. All of that might be of purely academic interest were it not for the fact that among the men behind that campaign were such names as, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz. What was, back in 1997, merely a theory, is now, in 2003, US policy. Hardly a conspiracy, the proposal was out there for anyone to see. But certainly an interesting case study of how columnists, commentators, and think-tank intellectuals can, with time and the election of a sympathetic president, change the course of American foreign policy. Here's more from Jackie Judd.

[01]21:14:49 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) Inside this building, behind this door, is the brain trust that some suspect has led the US to the brink of war.

[01]21:14:57 GARY SCHMITT, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

I think we've had a lot of influence because I think we've set the terms of kind of a way to think about the world that, in fact, has been picked up in some measure by this Administration.

[01]21:15:07 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) The Project for the New American Century is a loose collection of mostly Republicans who came together out of frustration in 1997.

[01]21:15:17 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

I think the principles are those of Ronald Reagan. A strong America. A morally-grounded foreign policy. As well as a foreign policy that defended American security and American interests. And understanding that American leadership was key to, not only world stability, but any hope for spreading democracy and freedom around the world.

[01]21:15:35 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) With a Democrat in the White House, these were people in the political wilderness. Then. . .

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[01]21:15:41 GARY SCHMITT, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Included Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Zellic, John Bolton. We had a very good list of very senior and very solid, obviously, former officials.

[01]21:15:55 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) Now, Cheney is Vice President. Rumsfeld, Defense Secretary. Wolfowitz, his deputy. Of the 40 people who signed the Project's letters, sent to then-president Clinton in 1998, ten are now in the Bush Administration. Others, including Pentagon adviser Richard Perle, have become leading advocates of war. That letter argued the case for a comprehensive political and military strategy for bringing down Saddam and his regime.

[01]21:16:23 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

We didn't finish the job in 1991 against Saddam. So, our sense was that lots of lives were being lost, lots of instability was being loosed upon the world. Lots of terrible things were really being loosed upon the world because America was being too timid and too weak and too unassertive in the post-Cold War era.

[01]21:16:41 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) The letter to Mr. Clinton, was in essence, a preview of arguments that would have a more receptive audience five years later. The Clinton White House did bomb Baghdad in 1998, after America's containment policy of Saddam laid dormant, until a Tuesday morning in September. A 76-page white paper, circulating for a year and arguing for an aggressive US foreign policy, suddenly gained new relevance.

[01]21:17:18 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS (CONTINUED)

(OC) In the blueprint, it says, the process of transformation is likely to be a long one. Absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor. Was 9/11, your Pearl Harbor?

[01]21:17:30 GARY SCHMITT, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

I think it was the country's Pearl Harbor. I think it was the President's Pearl Harbor.

[01]21:17:35 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) The Project, agitating outside and now inside the Administration, seized an opportunity after 9/11, which made war inevitable, argues Professor Ian Lustick of the University of Pennsylvania.

[01]21:17:48 PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

Before 9/11, this group was in the position it is in but could not win over the President to this extravagant image of what foreign policy required. After 9/11, it was able to benefit from the gigantic eruption of political capital, combined with the supply of military preponderance in the hands of the President. And this small group, therefore, was able to gain direct contact and even control, now, of the White House.

[01]21:18:20 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) According to the book "Bush At War," by Bob Woodward, it was only 30 hours after the 9/11 attacks, that Rumsfeld asked the President, why shouldn't the US go against Iraq, not just al-Qaeda? At the Pentagon on September 13th, Wolfowitz, for the first time, alluded to that broader goal.

[01]21:18:40 PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

It will be a campaign, not a single action. And we're gonna keep after these people and the people who support them until this stops. It has to be treated that way.

[01]21:18:51 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) What was the Project's influence in shaping that thinking?

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[01]21:18:56 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, we had been making these arguments for a few years and we continued to make them.

[01]21:18:59 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) How?

[01]21:19:00 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Magazine articles, faxed memoranda, longer reports.

[01]21:19:05 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) To whom?

[01]21:19:06 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

To the whole world. We made it very public that we thought that one consequence the President should draw from 9/11 is that it was unacceptable to sit back and let, either terrorist groups or dictators developing weapons of mass destruction, strike, first at us.

[01]21:19:23 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) Out of all this, a conspiracy theory blossomed, especially in Europe. From Scotland to Russia to England. Writers who oppose a war have written about a cabal of neo-conservatives pulling the strings of the President. A cabal with visions of an imperialist America dominating the world. Even Ian Lustick thinks the Project has acted in a conspiratorial way.

[01]21:19:48 PROFESSOR IAN LUSTICK, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

This group, what I call the tom-tom beaters, have set an agenda and have made the President feel that he has to live up to their definitions of manliness, their definitions of success and fear, their definitions of failure.

[01]21:20:05 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) You know that the critics have called you and your group, conspirators, the Dominators with a capital "D," fanatics. Any, or all of it, true?

[01]21:20:16 GARY SCHMITT, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

None. None. It's, very simply.

[01]21:20:19 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) Why have you've been labeled all of that?

[01]21:20:21 GARY SCHMITT, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, I think there's a lot of folks that are unhappy with the, with the change in the Administration's policy and the American policy at large. And in the absence of actually addressing the concerns directly, they'd rather think that it's some sort of conspiracy.

[01]21:20:35 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(VO) Some critics compare the Project to the group of men who helped lead America into Vietnam and came to be known as "the best and the brightest." Kristol dismisses the comparison. Still, he says, as America seems poised to go to war, there is a degree of accountability he will feel when the first bomb drops.

[01]21:20:54 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY ASK FOR TRANSCRIPTS FROM --- THE TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY: (818) 848-6500 --- WWW.TRANSCRIPTS.NET

Of course I'll feel some sense of responsibility. The only point I would also make, though, is one also has to take responsibility, would also have to take responsibility if one advocated doing nothing and then if

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something terrible happens. And, and I worry. I worry, not because I'm going to look bad, I worry because people could die and will die in this war.

[01]21:21:14 JACKIE JUDD, ABC NEWS

(OC) And after a war, the Project has a vision beyond a regime change in Iraq. A vision in which the United States government inserts itself in other failed regimes in the Middle East. So this truly does become a new American century. This is Jackie Judd for "Nightline," in Washington.

[01]21:21:34 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) So, we know how the founders of PNAC took us from where we were to where we are. But where do they plan to take us next? I'll talk with one of the founders of that group when we come back.

[GRAPHICS: NIGHTLINE]

[01]21:21:48 ANNOUNCER

This is ABC News "Nightline", brought to you by . . .

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[01]21:24:11 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Joining me now, William Kristol, the chairman of the Project for the New American Century. Mr. Kristol is also an editor of the "Weekly Standard Magazine." And the former Chief of Staff to Vice President Dan Quayle. Bill, if you'll forgive me, I'm a little less interested with where you've brought us and more interested in where you theorize that we are going to go. What is it that you're recommending for the future?

[01]21:24:36 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, I trust we'll be able to remove Saddam and his threat of weapons of mass destruction. We need to deal with other dictators developing weapons of mass destruction. North Korea is a real threat. I don't think we can allow that to become a nuclear assembly line. And in the Middle East, I really think we need to reverse over probably 20 years of bipartisan US foreign policy, which has made a Faustian bargain with dictators there, and really try to move towards the democratization, liberalization of the Arab societies of the Middle East. I think the status quo there has just proved to be too dangerous.

[01]21:25:06 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) When you talk about the democratization of the Middle East, though, first of all, I think you're wise enough to put it in terms of at least 20 years. But what does that entail in terms of the continuing presence of US forces in the region?

[01]21:25:19 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, look, I think when we go into Iraq and after we remove Saddam, we'll have to stay there for a while. We'll have to remove the weapons of mass destruction. But I think we owe it to the people of Iraq to help them reconstitute their society and to help them establish a decent and, I really hope, democratic government there. That would be a great, it would be great to help the people of Iraq liberate themselves, for one thing, they've suffered under such a cruel and brutal dictator. And it would be a great thing for the Middle East to have a functioning democratic country right in the middle of that region.

[01]21:25:46 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) All those things are undeniably true. But what does that mean in the terms of the continuing presence of US forces? I mean, the President famously noted in his State of the Union Address, a little more than a year ago, that there was an "axis of evil," and he mentioned not only North Korea, but also

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Iran. Should we assume that part of the, larger vision that you and your colleagues had, or have to this day, is the, removal, either by force or otherwise, of the current power structure in Iran?

[01]21:26:16 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

I think that would be great. I hope we can do it otherwise. And I think we can do it otherwise than by force. I think getting, rid of Saddam would help there. But, no, we will have to leave American troops in that region, I think in Iraq for quite a while. As we've had to leave them in Bosnia and Kosovo. As we had to leave them after World War II in Germany and Japan. It's a good investment. I think it helps keep stability in the area. And it helps strengthen the forces of freedom in the area. So, we shouldn't kid ourselves, though, this is an ambitious American foreign policy that the President has launched us on, requiring engagement and involvement in many parts of the world.

[01]21:26:49 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Does it, bother you that it appears that it is going to be a largely unilateral policy? I don't want to diminish the influence of our British friends, but this is clearly an American policy.

[01]21:26:59 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

It is. One would always prefer to have more allies rather than fewer. And I think we actually will have lots of help in the reconstruction and democratization, actually, of Iraq. But, look, I think what we've learned over the last ten years is that America has to lead. Other countries won't act. They will follow us, but they won't do it on their own. And in this case, I think we'll be vindicated when we discover the weapons of mass destruction and when we liberate the people of Iraq.

[01]21:27:24 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) What we've also learned over the past 10 or 12 years is that some of our punitive allies in the region turn out to be not quite as friendly as we thought, like the Saudis, for example. And part of the problem has been that we've had a rather significant US military presence in Saudi Arabia. What makes you and your colleagues believe that a greater military presence throughout the region won't engender even more animosity toward the United States and more terrorism?

[01]21:27:51 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, I think a military presence in a free and democratic Iraq that is helping the people of Iraq is a lot, is very much preferable to the military presence in Saudi Arabia, actually. And look, I agree that one of the things the Bush Administration has not yet done is rethink policy towards Saudi Arabia, which I think is a necessity. I mean, our policy, we've had a bipartisan, 60 years of accommodation to the Saudi Royal Family. And I think we've paid a big price for that. And I think we need to really rethink our Saudi policy. That's something, that's a bridge the Administration hasn't crossed yet. I think whoever the next president is, whether it's President Bush or someone else, our policy towards Saudi Arabia will have to change.

[01]21:28:29 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Do you think that we will have an adequate discussion of all that you are talking about here, which really has not been publicly discussed by the Administration, in the months ahead?

[01]21:28:39 WILLIAM KRISTOL, PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY

Well, I think the President's been pretty bold, actually, in laying out his doctrine. But, you, sure, I think we will have an adequate discussion, if only because the critics will insist on it, and should insist on it. This is a bold and ambitious American foreign policy. I think it's right for us and right for the world. I think the alternative, if we fail to do this, is really terrifying and terrible for the world. But I think this needs to be argued and debated. And I think it will be over the next year or two.

ASK FOR TRANSCRIPTS FROM --- THE TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY: (818) 848-6500 --- WWW.TRANSCRIPTS.NET STORY SLUG: THE PLAN NIGHTLINE: ABC NEWS TAPE 1 OF 1 / PAGE 7 OF 9 B-ROLL: NO INTERVIEWEES: 2ND LIEUTENANT DENNIS DOYLE, CHRIS BURY, GARY SCHMITT, JACKIE JUDD, LANCE

[01]21:29:02 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Bill Kristol, many thanks.

[01]21:29:05 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS (CONTINUED)

(OC) When we come back, the Fox Two/Five Marines find out exactly what's expected of them.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[EOF999]

[STORY: FOX TWO/FIVE]

[STORY2: MARINES CONTINUE HEAVY TRAINING REGIMEN]

[CORR: MIKE CERRE]

[CORLOC: KUWAIT]

[01]21:31:57 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Correspondent Mike Cerre has been with the Second Battalion, Fifth Marines, known as Fox Two/Five, for several weeks now, living with the unit as it gets ready for war with Iraq. This week, the Fox Two/Five Marines finally learned exactly what they've been training for.

[GRAPHICS: FOX TWO/FIVE]

[01]21:32:17 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS

(VO) For Marine infantry units like Fox Two/Five, which are being combined with mechanized units for extra mobility in the desert, any ride is a good one. But the shorter the ride, the better, for the infantry grunts packed inside these armored assault vehicles. The first few minutes are like a good carnival ride. But the novelty quickly wears off after several hours rehearsing their initial attack plan, which is expected to last as long as 18 hours during an invasion. While I found it to be a brutal assault on all the physical senses, many of the Marines were able to catch up on their reading and sleeping. With their assignment to this tank battalion comes a major improvement in their living conditions and their first hot meal since leaving the US, personally served up by their new tank battalion commander.

[01]21:33:30 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS (CONTINUED)

(VO) With the creature comforts of being part of a tank battalion, also comes a more active part in the invasion plans, which they're shown in detail for the first time, complete with maps and sand models of their objectives.

[01]21:33:43 MAJOR PAT NUGENT, OPERATIONS OFFICER

No plan survives first contact. So, the ability to be able to react and make those adjustments on the fly is what's critical. And that's what we're doing here, is building the flexibility in the plan to be able to execute rapidly.

[01]21:33:59 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS

(OC) For obvious reasons I was not included in the operational briefing. But every private, lance corporal, and corporal of the company was, in the Colonel's effort to make sure that every man knows exactly what he might have to do when the time comes.

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[01]21:34:14 LANCE CORPORAL JUSTIN OXENRIDER, MARINE COMPANY FOX TWO-FIVE

It's pretty important, especially once the crap hits the fan. I mean, you start losing your higher-ups, we gotta be the ones who step up. And if you don't know what the plan is, you're just gonna be a sitting turd right there.

[01]21:34:24 PRIVATE FIRST CLASS JACOB PERRY, FOX TWO-FIVE

Today I think, finally is gonna be a relief to me, knowing actually what we're going to be doing. And what kind of operations we're gonna be performing.

[01]21:34:35 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS

(VO) A reconnaissance patrol up to the border area, where they are likely to be crossing, was organized to give the platoon commanders a better idea of where they will be going, presumably at night. Does it make the plan that much clearer to you now, after seeing the terrain?

[01]21:34:49 2ND LIEUTENANT DENNIS DOYLE, PLATOON COMMANDER

The plan is pretty set. And the terrain is solidified in my mind.

[01]21:34:58 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS

(VO) Weighing heaviest on Corporal William Pyles' mind has been his pregnant wife back home in California. She went into labor the night he left the country. Like most of the Fox Two/Five, he had yet to receive his first letter from home, until their move back to an area where they could finally get their mail.

[01]21:35:27 MIKE CERRE, ABC NEWS (CONTINUED)

(VO) "Smoke 'em if you got 'em" is another timeless expression amongst grunts. And Fox Two/Five finally has them. And something they don't have to worry about. Near the Iraq/Kuwait border, this is Mike Cerre for "Nightline."

[01]21:35:42 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) When we come back, the latest news on the military buildup in the Middle East.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[01]21:38:25 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) My "Nightline" colleague Chris Bury is in Kuwait tonight, the main military staging area for an American invasion of Iraq. Chris, you spent the day with the Marines. How close to moving do you think they are?

[01]21:38:35 CHRIS BURY, ABC NEWS

(OC) Well, I think they're in their final preparations for beginning a possible assault. We were up with the Fifth Marine Regimen, which is about 30 miles from the Kuwaiti border. And it's clear their final preparations are under way. In fact, they've suspended some of their heavy-duty training, such as artillery practice, in order to get their equipment tuned up and ready to go. I talked to a top Marine commander. He said his troops are near their peak readiness. And he's somewhat concerned that that readiness could fade in a few weeks, perhaps a month, and morale could start to sag. The clear implication from the Marine point of view, at any rate, they would like to begin this assault sooner rather than later.

[01]21:39:15 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS

(OC) Do you have a sense of what the mission is?

ASK FOR TRANSCRIPTS FROM --- THE TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY: (818) 848-6500 --- WWW.TRANSCRIPTS.NET STORY SLUG: THE PLAN NIGHTLINE: ABC NEWS TAPE 1 OF 1 / PAGE 9 OF 9 B-ROLL: NO INTERVIEWEES: 2ND LIEUTENANT DENNIS DOYLE, CHRIS BURY, GARY SCHMITT, JACKIE JUDD, LANCE ASK FOR TRANSCRIPTS FROM --- THE TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY: (818) 848-6500 --- WWW.TRANSCRIPTS.NET [01]21:39:17 CHRIS BURY, ABC NEWS (OC) The Marines are going to move north and east from here to Basra, a major city, Iraqi city in southern Iraq. And their objective really will be twofold, to take the territory around Basra and also to pin down regular Iraqi army troops so that the heavy US army divisions can move straight to Baghdad. The Marines, as always, will have plenty of air support. In this case, a top commander told us that two to four days in advance of the Marine ground forces, the Iraqi forces will be pounded by the Marine air wing. And this commander characterized this as, perhaps, the heaviest combined air/ground attack in the history of the Marines. [01]21:39:58 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS (OC) I understand that we had our first little run-in between the military and the media. But it wasn't with the US military. [01]21:40:06 CHRIS BURY, ABC NEWS (OC) Well, it turns out the British troops here are a rather touchy subject. There are about 30,000 British forces here in the region, including about 4,000 Royal Marines. And we were asked today not to take their pictures. And the reason, when we asked, we were told was politics. Because of the anti-war sentiment in Great Britain, the military has decided that the fewer British troops that are seen on television, the better. [01]21:40:32 TED KOPPEL, ABC NEWS (OC) Chris Bury, thank you very much. That's our report for tonight. I'm Ted Koppel in Washington. For all of us here at ABC News, good night. [GRAPHICS: NIGHTLINE] [EOF999] [END OF TAPE]